P5799 never actually folds

[MrBalll]

I am currently running two GTX 275s. Each time I get a 5799 WU, 375 point, I download it then it goes straight to 100% complete and a yellow box in FahMon. Nothing ever happens after this, it just sits there idle. The only way to fix it is to delete the work folder, FahCore, FAHlog and queue.dat files then wait ten or so minutes the restart the exe and if I am lucky I will get another WU. I know it says unstable machine, but I have not overclocked these cards and they have been folding just fine for almost three months with no problems, aside form this one. Is there anything I can do to avoid this WU, for now, or does anyone know of a way I can somehow fold it? Thanks.


Here is the log file.

Code: Select all

--- Opening Log file [February 25 03:09:04 UTC] 


# Windows GPU Console Edition #################################################
###############################################################################

                       Folding@Home Client Version 6.23

                          http://folding.stanford.edu

###############################################################################
###############################################################################

Launch directory: C:\Program Files (x86)\Folding@home\Folding@home-gpu - 1
Arguments: -gpu 1 

[03:09:04] - Ask before connecting: No
[03:09:04] - User name: MrBalll (Team 37726)
[03:09:04] - Machine ID: 4
[03:09:04] 
[03:09:04] Work directory not found. Creating...
[03:09:04] Could not open work queue, generating new queue...
[03:09:04] Initialization complete
[03:09:04] - Preparing to get new work unit...
[03:09:04] + Attempting to get work packet
[03:09:04] - Connecting to assignment server
[03:09:04] - Successful: assigned to (171.67.108.21).
[03:09:04] + News From Folding@Home: Welcome to Folding@Home
[03:09:05] Loaded queue successfully.
[03:09:05] + Closed connections
[03:09:05] 
[03:09:05] + Processing work unit
[03:09:05] Core required: FahCore_11.exe
[03:09:05] Core not found.
[03:09:05] - Core is not present or corrupted.
[03:09:05] - Attempting to download new core...
[03:09:05] + Downloading new core: FahCore_11.exe
[03:09:06] + 10240 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 20480 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 30720 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 40960 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 51200 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 61440 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 71680 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 81920 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 92160 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 102400 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 112640 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 122880 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 133120 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 143360 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 153600 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 163840 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 174080 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 184320 bytes downloaded
[03:09:06] + 194560 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 204800 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 215040 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 225280 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 235520 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 245760 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 256000 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 266240 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 276480 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 286720 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 296960 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 307200 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 317440 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 327680 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 337920 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 348160 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 358400 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 368640 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 378880 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 389120 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 399360 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 409600 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 419840 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 430080 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 440320 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 450560 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 460800 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 471040 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 481280 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 491520 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 501760 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 512000 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 522240 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 532480 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 542720 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 552960 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 563200 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 573440 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 583680 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 593920 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 604160 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 614400 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 624640 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 634880 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 645120 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 655360 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] + 665067 bytes downloaded
[03:09:07] Verifying core Core_11.fah...
[03:09:07] Signature is VALID
[03:09:07] 
[03:09:07] Trying to unzip core FahCore_11.exe
[03:09:07] Decompressed FahCore_11.exe (1908736 bytes) successfully
[03:09:12] + Core successfully engaged
[03:09:17] 
[03:09:17] + Processing work unit
[03:09:17] Core required: FahCore_11.exe
[03:09:17] Core found.
[03:09:17] Working on queue slot 01 [February 25 03:09:17 UTC]
[03:09:17] + Working ...
[03:09:18] 
[03:09:18] *------------------------------*
[03:09:18] Folding@Home GPU Core
[03:09:18] Version 1.31 (Tue Sep 15 10:57:42 PDT 2009)
[03:09:18] 
[03:09:18] Compiler  : Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 14.00.50727.762 for 80x86 
[03:09:18] Build host: amoeba
[03:09:18] Board Type: Nvidia
[03:09:18] Core      : 
[03:09:18] Preparing to commence simulation
[03:09:18] - Looking at optimizations...
[03:09:18] DeleteFrameFiles: successfully deleted file=work/wudata_01.ckp
[03:09:18] - Created dyn
[03:09:18] - Files status OK
[03:09:18] - Expanded 22179 -> 146631 (decompressed 661.1 percent)
[03:09:18] Called DecompressByteArray: compressed_data_size=22179 data_size=146631, decompressed_data_size=146631 diff=0
[03:09:18] - Digital signature verified
[03:09:18] 
[03:09:18] Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21)
[03:09:18] 
[03:09:18] Assembly optimizations on if available.
[03:09:18] Entering M.D.
[03:09:24] Tpr hash work/wudata_01.tpr:  4032734210 2370289440 1416810764 2401746491 2084299880
[03:09:24] 
[03:09:24] Calling fah_main args: 14 usage=100
[03:09:24] 
[03:09:24] Working on Protein
[03:09:24] Client config found, loading data.
[03:09:24] mdrun_gpu returned 
[03:09:24] NANs detected on GPU
[03:09:24] 
[03:09:24] Folding@home Core Shutdown: UNSTABLE_MACHINE
[03:09:24] Starting GUI Server
[03:09:28] CoreStatus = 7A (122)
[03:09:28] Sending work to server
[03:09:28] Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21)
[03:09:28] - Error: Could not get length of results file work/wuresults_01.dat
[03:09:28] - Error: Could not read unit 01 file. Removing from queue.
[03:09:28] - Preparing to get new work unit...
[03:09:28] + Attempting to get work packet
[03:09:28] - Connecting to assignment server
[03:09:28] - Successful: assigned to (171.67.108.21).
[03:09:28] + News From Folding@Home: Welcome to Folding@Home
[03:09:28] Loaded queue successfully.
[03:09:29] + Closed connections
[03:09:34] 
[03:09:34] + Processing work unit
[03:09:34] Core required: FahCore_11.exe
[03:09:34] Core found.
[03:09:34] Working on queue slot 02 [February 25 03:09:34 UTC]
[03:09:34] + Working ...
[03:09:34] 
[03:09:34] *------------------------------*
[03:09:34] Folding@Home GPU Core
[03:09:34] Version 1.31 (Tue Sep 15 10:57:42 PDT 2009)
[03:09:34] 
[03:09:34] Compiler  : Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 14.00.50727.762 for 80x86 
[03:09:34] Build host: amoeba
[03:09:34] Board Type: Nvidia
[03:09:34] Core      : 
[03:09:34] Preparing to commence simulation
[03:09:34] - Looking at optimizations...
[03:09:34] DeleteFrameFiles: successfully deleted file=work/wudata_02.ckp
[03:09:34] - Created dyn
[03:09:34] - Files status OK
[03:09:34] - Expanded 22179 -> 146631 (decompressed 661.1 percent)
[03:09:34] Called DecompressByteArray: compressed_data_size=22179 data_size=146631, decompressed_data_size=146631 diff=0
[03:09:34] - Digital signature verified
[03:09:34] 
[03:09:34] Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21)
[03:09:34] 
[03:09:34] Assembly optimizations on if available.
[03:09:34] Entering M.D.
[03:09:40] Tpr hash work/wudata_02.tpr:  4032734210 2370289440 1416810764 2401746491 2084299880
[03:09:40] 
[03:09:40] Calling fah_main args: 14 usage=100
[03:09:40] 
[03:09:41] Working on Protein
[03:09:41] Client config found, loading data.
[03:09:41] mdrun_gpu returned 
[03:09:41] NANs detected on GPU
[03:09:41] 
[03:09:41] Folding@home Core Shutdown: UNSTABLE_MACHINE
[03:09:44] CoreStatus = 7A (122)
[03:09:44] Sending work to server
[03:09:44] Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21)
[03:09:44] - Error: Could not get length of results file work/wuresults_02.dat
[03:09:44] - Error: Could not read unit 02 file. Removing from queue.
[03:09:44] - Preparing to get new work unit...
[03:09:44] + Attempting to get work packet
[03:09:44] - Connecting to assignment server
[03:09:45] - Successful: assigned to (171.67.108.21).
[03:09:45] + News From Folding@Home: Welcome to Folding@Home
[03:09:45] Loaded queue successfully.
[03:09:45] + Closed connections
[03:09:50] 
[03:09:50] + Processing work unit
[03:09:50] Core required: FahCore_11.exe
[03:09:50] Core found.
[03:09:50] Working on queue slot 03 [February 25 03:09:50 UTC]
[03:09:50] + Working ...
[03:09:51] 
[03:09:51] *------------------------------*
[03:09:51] Folding@Home GPU Core
[03:09:51] Version 1.31 (Tue Sep 15 10:57:42 PDT 2009)
[03:09:51] 
[03:09:51] Compiler  : Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 14.00.50727.762 for 80x86 
[03:09:51] Build host: amoeba
[03:09:51] Board Type: Nvidia
[03:09:51] Core      : 
[03:09:51] Preparing to commence simulation
[03:09:51] - Looking at optimizations...
[03:09:51] DeleteFrameFiles: successfully deleted file=work/wudata_03.ckp
[03:09:51] - Created dyn
[03:09:51] - Files status OK
[03:09:51] - Expanded 22179 -> 146631 (decompressed 661.1 percent)
[03:09:51] Called DecompressByteArray: compressed_data_size=22179 data_size=146631, decompressed_data_size=146631 diff=0
[03:09:51] - Digital signature verified
[03:09:51] 
[03:09:51] Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21)
[03:09:51] 
[03:09:51] Assembly optimizations on if available.
[03:09:51] Entering M.D.
[03:09:57] Tpr hash work/wudata_03.tpr:  4032734210 2370289440 1416810764 2401746491 2084299880
[03:09:57] 
[03:09:57] Calling fah_main args: 14 usage=100
[03:09:57] 
[03:09:57] Working on Protein
[03:09:57] Client config found, loading data.
[03:09:57] mdrun_gpu returned 
[03:09:57] NANs detected on GPU
[03:09:57] 
[03:09:57] Folding@home Core Shutdown: UNSTABLE_MACHINE
[03:10:01] CoreStatus = 7A (122)
[03:10:01] Sending work to server
[03:10:01] Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21)
[03:10:01] - Error: Could not get length of results file work/wuresults_03.dat
[03:10:01] - Error: Could not read unit 03 file. Removing from queue.
[03:10:01] - Preparing to get new work unit...
[03:10:01] + Attempting to get work packet
[03:10:01] - Connecting to assignment server
[03:10:01] - Successful: assigned to (171.67.108.21).
[03:10:01] + News From Folding@Home: Welcome to Folding@Home
[03:10:01] Loaded queue successfully.
[03:10:02] + Closed connections
[03:10:07] 
[03:10:07] + Processing work unit
[03:10:07] Core required: FahCore_11.exe
[03:10:07] Core found.
[03:10:07] Working on queue slot 04 [February 25 03:10:07 UTC]
[03:10:07] + Working ...
[03:10:07] 
[03:10:07] *------------------------------*
[03:10:07] Folding@Home GPU Core
[03:10:07] Version 1.31 (Tue Sep 15 10:57:42 PDT 2009)
[03:10:07] 
[03:10:07] Compiler  : Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 14.00.50727.762 for 80x86 
[03:10:07] Build host: amoeba
[03:10:07] Board Type: Nvidia
[03:10:07] Core      : 
[03:10:07] Preparing to commence simulation
[03:10:07] - Looking at optimizations...
[03:10:07] DeleteFrameFiles: successfully deleted file=work/wudata_04.ckp
[03:10:07] - Created dyn
[03:10:07] - Files status OK
[03:10:07] - Expanded 22179 -> 146631 (decompressed 661.1 percent)
[03:10:07] Called DecompressByteArray: compressed_data_size=22179 data_size=146631, decompressed_data_size=146631 diff=0
[03:10:07] - Digital signature verified
[03:10:07] 
[03:10:07] Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21)
[03:10:07] 
[03:10:07] Assembly optimizations on if available.
[03:10:07] Entering M.D.
[03:10:13] Tpr hash work/wudata_04.tpr:  4032734210 2370289440 1416810764 2401746491 2084299880
[03:10:13] 
[03:10:13] Calling fah_main args: 14 usage=100
[03:10:13] 
[03:10:14] Working on Protein
[03:10:14] Client config found, loading data.
[03:10:14] mdrun_gpu returned 
[03:10:14] NANs detected on GPU
[03:10:14] 
[03:10:14] Folding@home Core Shutdown: UNSTABLE_MACHINE
[03:10:17] CoreStatus = 7A (122)
[03:10:17] Sending work to server
[03:10:17] Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21)
[03:10:17] - Error: Could not get length of results file work/wuresults_04.dat
[03:10:17] - Error: Could not read unit 04 file. Removing from queue.
[03:10:17] - Preparing to get new work unit...
[03:10:17] + Attempting to get work packet
[03:10:17] - Connecting to assignment server
[03:10:18] - Successful: assigned to (171.67.108.21).
[03:10:18] + News From Folding@Home: Welcome to Folding@Home
[03:10:18] Loaded queue successfully.
[03:10:19] + Closed connections
[03:10:24] 
[03:10:24] + Processing work unit
[03:10:24] Core required: FahCore_11.exe
[03:10:24] Core found.
[03:10:24] Working on queue slot 05 [February 25 03:10:24 UTC]
[03:10:24] + Working ...
[03:10:24] 
[03:10:24] *------------------------------*
[03:10:24] Folding@Home GPU Core
[03:10:24] Version 1.31 (Tue Sep 15 10:57:42 PDT 2009)
[03:10:24] 
[03:10:24] Compiler  : Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 14.00.50727.762 for 80x86 
[03:10:24] Build host: amoeba
[03:10:24] Board Type: Nvidia
[03:10:24] Core      : 
[03:10:24] Preparing to commence simulation
[03:10:24] - Looking at optimizations...
[03:10:24] DeleteFrameFiles: successfully deleted file=work/wudata_05.ckp
[03:10:24] - Created dyn
[03:10:24] - Files status OK
[03:10:24] - Expanded 22179 -> 146631 (decompressed 661.1 percent)
[03:10:24] Called DecompressByteArray: compressed_data_size=22179 data_size=146631, decompressed_data_size=146631 diff=0
[03:10:24] - Digital signature verified
[03:10:24] 
[03:10:24] Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21)
[03:10:24] 
[03:10:24] Assembly optimizations on if available.
[03:10:24] Entering M.D.
[03:10:30] Tpr hash work/wudata_05.tpr:  4032734210 2370289440 1416810764 2401746491 2084299880
[03:10:30] 
[03:10:30] Calling fah_main args: 14 usage=100
[03:10:30] 
[03:10:30] Working on Protein
[03:10:30] Client config found, loading data.
[03:10:30] mdrun_gpu returned 
[03:10:30] NANs detected on GPU
[03:10:30] 
[03:10:30] Folding@home Core Shutdown: UNSTABLE_MACHINE
[03:10:34] CoreStatus = 7A (122)
[03:10:34] Sending work to server
[03:10:34] Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21)
[03:10:34] - Error: Could not get length of results file work/wuresults_05.dat
[03:10:34] - Error: Could not read unit 05 file. Removing from queue.
[03:10:34] EUE limit exceeded. Pausing 24 hours.

[toTOW]

In fact, from the log you posted, you failed 5 times on the same WU (Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21)), and the client went into 24H pause. If you restart your client, you'll see one more error and it will move to a fresh new WU.

Btw, someone else completed Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21) successfully.

Did you run a MemtesG80 on your cards to check if they're fine ?

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I, too, have been having this problem. I am running an nvidia GPU, which has churned through well over 1000 WUs in the past few months, with no problems whatsoever. It is not overclocked. Every other type of WU works fine. But every time I get a Project 5799, it throws this EUE message and stops. Mine is a different WU in that project, FWIW : 3/14/3

This is very annoying to say the least. I do not think there is a problem with my GPU, but with these particular WUs and cores.

Cleaning everything out doesn't always work (i.e. it often just tries the same one again, and fails, of course). So not only do I waste my time during the day trying to restart with a WU that isn't broken, but if it hits this in the middle of the night, then I can lose several hours of folding time. Not clever.

[bruce]

I, too, have been having this problem. I am running an nvidia GPU, which has churned through well over 1000 WUs in the past few months, with no problems whatsoever. It is not overclocked. Every other type of WU works fine. But every time I get a Project 5799, it throws this EUE message and stops. Mine is a different WU in that project, FWIW : 3/14/3

This is very annoying to say the least. I do not think there is a problem with my GPU, but with these particular WUs and cores.

Welcome to the foldingforum, AnnuverScotinExile. It usually helps if you post FAHlog when you have a problem, but I still found two facts which seem to imply that the problem is in your setup.

1) MrBalll's log (above) shows that he's using the same version of the core that a huge number of others are using. If somehow you're running a different version, please let us know.
[03:09:18] Folding@Home GPU Core
[03:09:18] Version 1.31 (Tue Sep 15 10:57:42 PDT 2009)

2) Someone else successfully completed the exact same WU.
WU (P5799 R3 C14 G3) was added to the stats database on 2010-02-13 13:01:47 for 375 points of credit.

Perhaps p5799 uses your 275s more effectively than other projects that you've run, drawing slightly more power and creating slightly more heat, thereby making your GPU unstable.

For many years, FAH has put the traditional CPU overclocking benchmarks to shame by finding unstable CPUs which were not detected by prime95 or whatever else they had been using. I see no real reason why the same might not be true for GPUs. Eventually a segment of the GROMACS code which appears in FahCore_78 was released as a CPU benchmark. [To be fair, though, prime95 and stressCPU2 are both good tests. They just put maximum loads on different segments of the CPU.]

I don't know of a dependable GPU benchmark which pushes GPUs the same way that FahCore_11 does. Stanford did release memtestG80 which does a good job of checking the VRAM associated with your GPU. If it fails, you have defective hardware. Unfortunately, if it passes, that does not prove your hardware is good without a test that exercises other segments of the GPU.

The safest options are to run memtestg80 . . . reduce the overclocking . . . check your power supply . . . check for excessive heat . . . use the Environment Variable to reduce GPU utilization . . . etc.

Search the forum for the environment variable, FAH_GPU_IDLE

Hopefully you'll find an answer.
-------------
Oh, and a welcome to foldingforum to you too, MrBalll. I think all of this applies to you, too.

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I, too, have been having this problem. I am running an nvidia GPU, which has churned through well over 1000 WUs in the past few months, with no problems whatsoever. It is not overclocked. Every other type of WU works fine. But every time I get a Project 5799, it throws this EUE message and stops. Mine is a different WU in that project, FWIW : 3/14/3

This is very annoying to say the least. I do not think there is a problem with my GPU, but with these particular WUs and cores.

Welcome to the foldingforum, AnnuverScotinExile. It usually helps if you post FAHlog when you have a problem, but I still found two facts which seem to imply that the problem is in your setup.

1) MrBalll's log (above) shows that he's using the same version of the core that a huge number of others are using. If somehow you're running a different version, please let us know.
[03:09:18] Folding@Home GPU Core
[03:09:18] Version 1.31 (Tue Sep 15 10:57:42 PDT 2009)

2) Someone else successfully completed the exact same WU.
WU (P5799 R3 C14 G3) was added to the stats database on 2010-02-13 13:01:47 for 375 points of credit.

Perhaps p5799 uses your 275s more effectively than other projects that you've run, drawing slightly more power and creating slightly more heat, thereby making your GPU unstable.

For many years, FAH has put the traditional CPU overclocking benchmarks to shame by finding unstable CPUs which were not detected by prime95 or whatever else they had been using. I see no real reason why the same might not be true for GPUs. Eventually a segment of the GROMACS code which appears in FahCore_78 was released as a CPU benchmark. [To be fair, though, prime95 and stressCPU2 are both good tests. They just put maximum loads on different segments of the CPU.]

I don't know of a dependable GPU benchmark which pushes GPUs the same way that FahCore_11 does. Stanford did release memtestG80 which does a good job of checking the VRAM associated with your GPU. If it fails, you have defective hardware. Unfortunately, if it passes, that does not prove your hardware is good without a test that exercises other segments of the GPU.

The safest options are to run memtestg80 . . . reduce the overclocking . . . check your power supply . . . check for excessive heat . . . use the Environment Variable to reduce GPU utilization . . . etc.

Search the forum for the environment variable, FAH_GPU_IDLE

Hopefully you'll find an answer.
-------------
Oh, and a welcome to foldingforum to you too, MrBalll. I think all of this applies to you, too.

OK

Your suggestions are rather intimidating for a non techie newbie. I have an nVidea GTS 240, FWIW. It has been chugging along at ~5000 ppd for 3 or 4 months without a problem until the Project 5799s came along. As far as I am aware it is not overclocked. But I wouldn't know how to reduce overclocking anyway. I have no idea how to check for excessive heat or the power supply, but it is fine with every other WU. Searching for FAH_GPU_IDLE caused me problems, since I couldn;t get the search to search on the whole string - even in quotes it searched for the words fah gpu and idle individually. Anyhow, I found a thread that gave some sort of advice. I set FAH_GPU_IDLE to 50, which should surely be more than enough? Naw:

Code: Select all

--- Opening Log file [February 25 16:43:06 UTC] 


# Windows GPU Console Edition #################################################
###############################################################################

                       Folding@Home Client Version 6.23

                          http://folding.stanford.edu

###############################################################################
###############################################################################

Launch directory: C:\Users\Richard\AppData\Roaming\Folding@home-gpu
Arguments: -verbosity 9 

[16:43:06] - Ask before connecting: No
[16:43:06] - User name: AnnuverScotinExile (Team 169927)
[16:43:06] - User ID: 57BCC2ED638B7AFE
[16:43:06] - Machine ID: 2
[16:43:06] 
[16:43:06] Work directory not found. Creating...
[16:43:06] Could not open work queue, generating new queue...
[16:43:06] Initialization complete
[16:43:06] - Preparing to get new work unit...
[16:43:06] + Attempting to get work packet
[16:43:06] - Will indicate memory of 8183 MB
[16:43:06] - Detect CPU. Vendor: GenuineIntel, Family: 6, Model: 14, Stepping: 5
[16:43:06] - Connecting to assignment server
[16:43:06] Connecting to http://assign-GPU.stanford.edu:8080/
[16:43:06] - Autosending finished units... [February 25 16:43:06 UTC]
[16:43:06] Trying to send all finished work units
[16:43:06] + No unsent completed units remaining.
[16:43:06] - Autosend completed
[16:43:07] Posted data.
[16:43:07] Initial: 43AB; - Successful: assigned to (171.67.108.21).
[16:43:07] + News From Folding@Home: Welcome to Folding@Home
[16:43:08] Loaded queue successfully.
[16:43:08] Connecting to http://171.67.108.21:8080/
[16:43:08] Posted data.
[16:43:08] Initial: 0000; - Receiving payload (expected size: 22730)
[16:43:08] Conversation time very short, giving reduced weight in bandwidth avg
[16:43:08] - Downloaded at ~44 kB/s
[16:43:08] - Averaged speed for that direction ~44 kB/s
[16:43:08] + Received work.
[16:43:08] + Closed connections
[16:43:08] 
[16:43:08] + Processing work unit
[16:43:08] Core required: FahCore_11.exe
[16:43:08] Core found.
[16:43:08] Working on queue slot 01 [February 25 16:43:08 UTC]
[16:43:08] + Working ...
[16:43:08] - Calling '.\FahCore_11.exe -dir work/ -suffix 01 -checkpoint 15 -verbose -lifeline 1928 -version 623'

[16:43:09] 
[16:43:09] *------------------------------*
[16:43:09] Folding@Home GPU Core
[16:43:09] Version 1.31 (Tue Sep 15 10:57:42 PDT 2009)
[16:43:09] 
[16:43:09] Compiler  : Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 14.00.50727.762 for 80x86 
[16:43:09] Build host: amoeba
[16:43:09] Board Type: Nvidia
[16:43:09] Core      : 
[16:43:09] Preparing to commence simulation
[16:43:09] - Looking at optimizations...
[16:43:09] DeleteFrameFiles: successfully deleted file=work/wudata_01.ckp
[16:43:09] - Created dyn
[16:43:09] - Files status OK
[16:43:09] - Expanded 22218 -> 146631 (decompressed 659.9 percent)
[16:43:09] Called DecompressByteArray: compressed_data_size=22218 data_size=146631, decompressed_data_size=146631 diff=0
[16:43:09] - Digital signature verified
[16:43:09] 
[16:43:09] Project: 5799 (Run 3, Clone 14, Gen 3)
[16:43:09] 
[16:43:09] Assembly optimizations on if available.
[16:43:09] Entering M.D.
[16:43:15] Tpr hash work/wudata_01.tpr:  3898932636 4129261890 2426882992 2617858300 1355900077
[16:43:15] 
[16:43:15] Calling fah_main args: 14 usage=50
[16:43:15] 
[16:43:15] Working on Protein
[16:43:16] Client config found, loading data.
[16:43:16] mdrun_gpu returned 
[16:43:16] NANs detected on GPU
[16:43:16] 
[16:43:16] Folding@home Core Shutdown: UNSTABLE_MACHINE
[16:43:21] CoreStatus = 7A (122)
[16:43:21] Sending work to server
[16:43:21] Project: 5799 (Run 3, Clone 14, Gen 3)
[16:43:21] - Read packet limit of 540015616... Set to 524286976.
[16:43:21] - Error: Could not get length of results file work/wuresults_01.dat
[16:43:21] - Error: Could not read unit 01 file. Removing from queue.
[16:43:21] Trying to send all finished work units
[16:43:21] + No unsent completed units remaining.
[16:43:21] - Preparing to get new work unit...
[16:43:21] + Attempting to get work packet
[16:43:21] - Will indicate memory of 8183 MB
[16:43:21] - Connecting to assignment server
[16:43:21] Connecting to http://assign-GPU.stanford.edu:8080/
[16:43:22] Posted data.
[16:43:22] Initial: 43AB; - Successful: assigned to (171.67.108.21).
[16:43:22] + News From Folding@Home: Welcome to Folding@Home
[16:43:22] Loaded queue successfully.
[16:43:22] Connecting to http://171.67.108.21:8080/
[16:43:23] Posted data.
[16:43:23] Initial: 0000; - Receiving payload (expected size: 22730)
[16:43:23] Conversation time very short, giving reduced weight in bandwidth avg
[16:43:23] - Downloaded at ~44 kB/s
[16:43:23] - Averaged speed for that direction ~44 kB/s
[16:43:23] + Received work.
[16:43:23] Trying to send all finished work units
[16:43:23] + No unsent completed units remaining.
[16:43:23] + Closed connections
[16:43:28] 
[16:43:28] + Processing work unit
[16:43:28] Core required: FahCore_11.exe
[16:43:28] Core found.
[16:43:28] Working on queue slot 02 [February 25 16:43:28 UTC]
[16:43:28] + Working ...
[16:43:28] - Calling '.\FahCore_11.exe -dir work/ -suffix 02 -checkpoint 15 -verbose -lifeline 1928 -version 623'

[16:43:28] 
[16:43:28] *------------------------------*
[16:43:28] Folding@Home GPU Core
[16:43:28] Version 1.31 (Tue Sep 15 10:57:42 PDT 2009)
[16:43:28] 
[16:43:28] Compiler  : Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 14.00.50727.762 for 80x86 
[16:43:28] Build host: amoeba
[16:43:28] Board Type: Nvidia
[16:43:28] Core      : 
[16:43:28] Preparing to commence simulation
[16:43:28] - Looking at optimizations...
[16:43:28] DeleteFrameFiles: successfully deleted file=work/wudata_02.ckp
[16:43:28] - Created dyn
[16:43:28] - Files status OK
[16:43:28] - Expanded 22218 -> 146631 (decompressed 659.9 percent)
[16:43:28] Called DecompressByteArray: compressed_data_size=22218 data_size=146631, decompressed_data_size=146631 diff=0
[16:43:28] - Digital signature verified
[16:43:28] 
[16:43:28] Project: 5799 (Run 3, Clone 14, Gen 3)
[16:43:28] 
[16:43:28] Assembly optimizations on if available.
[16:43:28] Entering M.D.
[16:43:34] Tpr hash work/wudata_02.tpr:  3898932636 4129261890 2426882992 2617858300 1355900077
[16:43:34] 
[16:43:34] Calling fah_main args: 14 usage=50
[16:43:34] 
[16:43:35] Working on Protein
[16:43:36] Client config found, loading data.
[16:43:36] mdrun_gpu returned 
[16:43:36] NANs detected on GPU
[16:43:36] 
[16:43:36] Folding@home Core Shutdown: UNSTABLE_MACHINE
[16:43:38] CoreStatus = 7A (122)
[16:43:38] Sending work to server
[16:43:38] Project: 5799 (Run 3, Clone 14, Gen 3)
[16:43:38] - Read packet limit of 540015616... Set to 524286976.
[16:43:38] - Error: Could not get length of results file work/wuresults_02.dat
[16:43:38] - Error: Could not read unit 02 file. Removing from queue.
[16:43:38] Trying to send all finished work units
[16:43:38] + No unsent completed units remaining.
[16:43:38] - Preparing to get new work unit...
[16:43:38] + Attempting to get work packet
[16:43:38] - Will indicate memory of 8183 MB
[16:43:38] - Connecting to assignment server
[16:43:38] Connecting to http://assign-GPU.stanford.edu:8080/
[16:43:39] Posted data.
[16:43:39] Initial: 43AB; - Successful: assigned to (171.67.108.21).
[16:43:39] + News From Folding@Home: Welcome to Folding@Home
[16:43:40] Loaded queue successfully.
[16:43:40] Connecting to http://171.67.108.21:8080/
[16:43:40] Posted data.
[16:43:40] Initial: 0000; - Receiving payload (expected size: 22730)
[16:43:40] Conversation time very short, giving reduced weight in bandwidth avg
[16:43:40] - Downloaded at ~44 kB/s
[16:43:40] - Averaged speed for that direction ~44 kB/s
[16:43:40] + Received work.
[16:43:40] Trying to send all finished work units
[16:43:40] + No unsent completed units remaining.
[16:43:40] + Closed connections
[16:43:45] 
[16:43:45] + Processing work unit
[16:43:45] Core required: FahCore_11.exe
[16:43:45] Core found.
[16:43:45] Working on queue slot 03 [February 25 16:43:45 UTC]
[16:43:45] + Working ...
[16:43:45] - Calling '.\FahCore_11.exe -dir work/ -suffix 03 -checkpoint 15 -verbose -lifeline 1928 -version 623'

[16:43:46] 
[16:43:46] *------------------------------*
[16:43:46] Folding@Home GPU Core
[16:43:46] Version 1.31 (Tue Sep 15 10:57:42 PDT 2009)
[16:43:46] 
[16:43:46] Compiler  : Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 14.00.50727.762 for 80x86 
[16:43:46] Build host: amoeba
[16:43:46] Board Type: Nvidia
[16:43:46] Core      : 
[16:43:46] Preparing to commence simulation
[16:43:46] - Looking at optimizations...
[16:43:46] DeleteFrameFiles: successfully deleted file=work/wudata_03.ckp
[16:43:46] - Created dyn
[16:43:46] - Files status OK
[16:43:46] - Expanded 22218 -> 146631 (decompressed 659.9 percent)
[16:43:46] Called DecompressByteArray: compressed_data_size=22218 data_size=146631, decompressed_data_size=146631 diff=0
[16:43:46] - Digital signature verified
[16:43:46] 
[16:43:46] Project: 5799 (Run 3, Clone 14, Gen 3)
[16:43:46] 
[16:43:46] Assembly optimizations on if available.
[16:43:46] Entering M.D.
[16:43:52] Tpr hash work/wudata_03.tpr:  3898932636 4129261890 2426882992 2617858300 1355900077
[16:43:52] 
[16:43:52] Calling fah_main args: 14 usage=50
[16:43:52] 
[16:43:52] Working on Protein
[16:43:53] Client config found, loading data.
[16:43:53] Starting GUI Server
[16:43:53] mdrun_gpu returned 
[16:43:53] NANs detected on GPU
[16:43:53] 
[16:43:53] Folding@home Core Shutdown: UNSTABLE_MACHINE
[16:43:56] CoreStatus = 7A (122)
[16:43:56] Sending work to server
[16:43:56] Project: 5799 (Run 3, Clone 14, Gen 3)
[16:43:56] - Read packet limit of 540015616... Set to 524286976.
[16:43:56] - Error: Could not get length of results file work/wuresults_03.dat
[16:43:56] - Error: Could not read unit 03 file. Removing from queue.
[16:43:56] Trying to send all finished work units
[16:43:56] + No unsent completed units remaining.
[16:43:56] - Preparing to get new work unit...
[16:43:56] + Attempting to get work packet
[16:43:56] - Will indicate memory of 8183 MB
[16:43:56] - Connecting to assignment server
[16:43:56] Connecting to http://assign-GPU.stanford.edu:8080/
[16:43:57] Posted data.
[16:43:57] Initial: 43AB; - Successful: assigned to (171.67.108.21).
[16:43:57] + News From Folding@Home: Welcome to Folding@Home
[16:43:57] Loaded queue successfully.
[16:43:57] Connecting to http://171.67.108.21:8080/
[16:43:58] Posted data.
[16:43:58] Initial: 0000; - Receiving payload (expected size: 22730)
[16:43:58] Conversation time very short, giving reduced weight in bandwidth avg
[16:43:58] - Downloaded at ~44 kB/s
[16:43:58] - Averaged speed for that direction ~44 kB/s
[16:43:58] + Received work.
[16:43:58] Trying to send all finished work units
[16:43:58] + No unsent completed units remaining.
[16:43:58] + Closed connections
[16:44:03] 
[16:44:03] + Processing work unit
[16:44:03] Core required: FahCore_11.exe
[16:44:03] Core found.
[16:44:03] Working on queue slot 04 [February 25 16:44:03 UTC]
[16:44:03] + Working ...
[16:44:03] - Calling '.\FahCore_11.exe -dir work/ -suffix 04 -checkpoint 15 -verbose -lifeline 1928 -version 623'

[16:44:03] 
[16:44:03] *------------------------------*
[16:44:03] Folding@Home GPU Core
[16:44:03] Version 1.31 (Tue Sep 15 10:57:42 PDT 2009)
[16:44:03] 
[16:44:03] Compiler  : Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 14.00.50727.762 for 80x86 
[16:44:03] Build host: amoeba
[16:44:03] Board Type: Nvidia
[16:44:03] Core      : 
[16:44:03] Preparing to commence simulation
[16:44:03] - Looking at optimizations...
[16:44:03] DeleteFrameFiles: successfully deleted file=work/wudata_04.ckp
[16:44:03] - Created dyn
[16:44:03] - Files status OK
[16:44:03] - Expanded 22218 -> 146631 (decompressed 659.9 percent)
[16:44:03] Called DecompressByteArray: compressed_data_size=22218 data_size=146631, decompressed_data_size=146631 diff=0
[16:44:03] - Digital signature verified
[16:44:03] 
[16:44:03] Project: 5799 (Run 3, Clone 14, Gen 3)
[16:44:03] 
[16:44:03] Assembly optimizations on if available.
[16:44:03] Entering M.D.
[16:44:09] Tpr hash work/wudata_04.tpr:  3898932636 4129261890 2426882992 2617858300 1355900077
[16:44:09] 
[16:44:09] Calling fah_main args: 14 usage=50
[16:44:09] 
[16:44:10] Working on Protein
[16:44:11] Client config found, loading data.
[16:44:11] mdrun_gpu returned 
[16:44:11] NANs detected on GPU
[16:44:11] 
[16:44:11] Folding@home Core Shutdown: UNSTABLE_MACHINE
[16:44:15] CoreStatus = 7A (122)
[16:44:15] Sending work to server
[16:44:15] Project: 5799 (Run 3, Clone 14, Gen 3)
[16:44:15] - Read packet limit of 540015616... Set to 524286976.
[16:44:15] - Error: Could not get length of results file work/wuresults_04.dat
[16:44:15] - Error: Could not read unit 04 file. Removing from queue.
[16:44:15] Trying to send all finished work units
[16:44:15] + No unsent completed units remaining.
[16:44:15] - Preparing to get new work unit...
[16:44:15] + Attempting to get work packet
[16:44:15] - Will indicate memory of 8183 MB
[16:44:15] - Connecting to assignment server
[16:44:15] Connecting to http://assign-GPU.stanford.edu:8080/
[16:44:16] Posted data.
[16:44:16] Initial: 43AB; - Successful: assigned to (171.67.108.21).
[16:44:16] + News From Folding@Home: Welcome to Folding@Home
[16:44:16] Loaded queue successfully.
[16:44:16] Connecting to http://171.67.108.21:8080/
[16:44:17] Posted data.
[16:44:17] Initial: 0000; - Receiving payload (expected size: 22730)
[16:44:17] Conversation time very short, giving reduced weight in bandwidth avg
[16:44:17] - Downloaded at ~44 kB/s
[16:44:17] - Averaged speed for that direction ~44 kB/s
[16:44:17] + Received work.
[16:44:17] Trying to send all finished work units
[16:44:17] + No unsent completed units remaining.
[16:44:17] + Closed connections
[16:44:22] 
[16:44:22] + Processing work unit
[16:44:22] Core required: FahCore_11.exe
[16:44:22] Core found.
[16:44:22] Working on queue slot 05 [February 25 16:44:22 UTC]
[16:44:22] + Working ...
[16:44:22] - Calling '.\FahCore_11.exe -dir work/ -suffix 05 -checkpoint 15 -verbose -lifeline 1928 -version 623'

[16:44:22] 
[16:44:22] *------------------------------*
[16:44:22] Folding@Home GPU Core
[16:44:22] Version 1.31 (Tue Sep 15 10:57:42 PDT 2009)
[16:44:22] 
[16:44:22] Compiler  : Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 14.00.50727.762 for 80x86 
[16:44:22] Build host: amoeba
[16:44:22] Board Type: Nvidia
[16:44:22] Core      : 
[16:44:22] Preparing to commence simulation
[16:44:22] - Looking at optimizations...
[16:44:22] DeleteFrameFiles: successfully deleted file=work/wudata_05.ckp
[16:44:22] - Created dyn
[16:44:22] - Files status OK
[16:44:22] - Expanded 22218 -> 146631 (decompressed 659.9 percent)
[16:44:22] Called DecompressByteArray: compressed_data_size=22218 data_size=146631, decompressed_data_size=146631 diff=0
[16:44:22] - Digital signature verified
[16:44:22] 
[16:44:22] Project: 5799 (Run 3, Clone 14, Gen 3)
[16:44:22] 
[16:44:22] Assembly optimizations on if available.
[16:44:22] Entering M.D.
[16:44:28] Tpr hash work/wudata_05.tpr:  3898932636 4129261890 2426882992 2617858300 1355900077
[16:44:28] 
[16:44:28] Calling fah_main args: 14 usage=50
[16:44:28] 
[16:44:29] Working on Protein
[16:44:31] Client config found, loading data.
[16:44:31] mdrun_gpu returned 
[16:44:31] NANs detected on GPU
[16:44:31] 
[16:44:31] Folding@home Core Shutdown: UNSTABLE_MACHINE
[16:44:35] CoreStatus = 7A (122)
[16:44:35] Sending work to server
[16:44:35] Project: 5799 (Run 3, Clone 14, Gen 3)
[16:44:35] - Read packet limit of 540015616... Set to 524286976.
[16:44:35] - Error: Could not get length of results file work/wuresults_05.dat
[16:44:35] - Error: Could not read unit 05 file. Removing from queue.
[16:44:35] EUE limit exceeded. Pausing 24 hours.

So even trying to run at only 50%, it bombs out immediately.

[bollix47]

Arguments: -verbosity 9

Have you tried adding the following to your arguments?

Code: Select all

-forcegpu nvidia_g80

Also, if you have more than one GPU on your system then you can use the -gpu 0 or -gpu 1 etc. flags to identify individual GPUs.

For example, if you have onboard graphics in addition to your 240 and didn't disable it in the bios then your 240 would be -gpu 1 not 0.

[Ravage7779]

Since it bombs out immediately, its likely not a heat issue, that usually comes a little later. Worth a quick check tho. Basically, do you have dust bunnies inside your computer case? Cleaning them out with compressed air works ok, I use a soft bristle paintbrush to get the glued on stuff and skip canned air entirely. I sometimes take everything apart to really get at everything. Dust, especially on the leading edges of fans, greatly reduces their effectiveness. Dust on heatsinks acts as insulation.

He has no idea how to overclock his card, so unless it's a second hand gaming machine he got from someone else, that's not likely either. Download gpu-z from techpowerup, run it and report the clock speeds that it is set at. I have no idea what the stock clocks are for your card, but someone here will know, as will google.

Possibly a misconfig of the client. Try the-forcegpu nvidia_g80 as suggested. It can't hurt. Post the contents of your client.cfg file and we can rule any nonsense in there out. If you have a passkey in there, substitute a couple asterisks for it, cuz thats for you and you alone to see.

Post your hardware config, proc, ram, gpus, # of drives, power supply with # of watts, etc, and someone will be able to tell you if you are skating on the edge of the output of your power supply.

The memory test that was referred to above can be downloaded off the stanford page if I remember correctly. You will probably have to fish a little, it's poorly organized. Set that up to run, and go to work/school/bed. Give it plenty of time to work on your card. Report the results.

Bottom line is fah is wicked hard on hardware, and will find every deficiency in your system. We need info to help you find it, and you have to go looking for it to rule things out.

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Thanks, all. I will work through that lot when enthusiasm allows. In the mean time, I will keep trying to get a non 5799 WU so I can carry on folding.

It only has a single GPU, and is as set up by Dell. The box is only 4 or 5 months old, and was cleaned inside recently when an engineer had to replace the motherboard.

As for a misconfig of the client, would that cause it to fail on only 1 type of WU? As I said, this set up has crunched through well over 1000 WUs in the last 3 or 4 months with no problems at all. That said, I do not have the -forcegpu nvidia_g80 as far as I can recall.

[MrBalll]

A lot of text goes here.

I'm not really sure who you were talking to here, I'm assuming it was the other guy that needs help.

Thanks for the suggestion of the memtestG80 app. I will give it a shot. I can only assume it isn't an instability issue as I've never really tried to OC my GPUs. One of these days when I have time I may do it, just because of the extra PPD the shader OC will give me.

I also doubt it is my power.
I just cleaned my GPUs out over the weekend, was installing water cooling for my CPU and MOBO so I figured why not clean everything else out.

My system consists of:
HAF932
i7 920 OC'ed to 4.0 GHz
Corsair Dominator 1600 memory
2x EVGA GTX 275s
Three HDDs
Two Disc drives
Corsair HX1000

[AnnuverScotinExile]

FWIW: I added the -forcegpu nvidia_g80 thing. It then grabbed a different WU (project 5910) so, of course, it is now folding away without any problems. I will report back if I get another 5799.

[MrBalll]

Well, it got to the point where both GPUs would only get the 375 point WU. I even tried the g80 tag and it did nothing for me. So, I deleted everything and started over from scratch, downloading client, setting up, etc... and both clients grabbed a 353 point WU. So I am in business again for now.

[MrBalll]

Well, after two WU's it decided to grab another 375 pointer and failed to fold it again, not that it can fold it, it just downloads and goes straight to 100% complete.
I ran MemtestG80 with 1024MB out of 1792MB of memory and did 100 iterations and it found 0 errors.

If I have never overclocked these cards and they have folded perfectly fine for three months straight would that mean it is a WU problem? Also, temps never go over 70C while folding.

[bruce]

Well, after two WU's it decided to grab another 375 pointer and failed to fold it again, not that it can fold it, it just downloads and goes straight to 100% complete.
I ran MemtestG80 with 1024MB out of 1792MB of memory and did 100 iterations and it found 0 errors.

If I have never overclocked these cards and they have folded perfectly fine for three months straight would that mean it is a WU problem? Also, temps never go over 70C while folding.

At the top of this discussion, you posted a FAHlog. toTOW responded that someone else folded it successfully. Since that interchange, you've done a lot of complaining but you have not presented enough information about any subsequent problems for anyone to help you. There are lots an lots of 375 point WUs. Please show us which ones have been assigned to you and how they failed so we can actually respond to the specifics of your case. So far, 100% of the ones you've posted about [i.e.- a single WU: Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21)] show that someone else was able to complete it, which makes it seem like it's some kind of problem OTHER THAN a problem with the WU.

[shdbcamping]

Just a jump in here... and just noting another portion of the OP. ALL other WU's work on his GPU/s. Only these are a problem .

Just another reason that (IMO) it would be in the Pande Project's best interest to implement a HW recognition or Client recognition (as all our passkeys have different client Numbers) so that it does not assign WU's to a client that do not get returned. They could use a % formula to dissuade cheaters. Point is that if they keep giving work to a client that cannot return it, they are killing the project for "equality" of assignment .

Not all contributers have the time to reallign there systems when things change, and some cannot for buisiness reasons . Sometimes I can't because it's simply a Client/HW conflict that I can't find a fix for. But it's still Science not getting done when there are classes of WU's that that HW will finish always.

Anyone that has the time to cheat on folding for PPD certainly cannot have enough HW to impact the project as much as getting 'what will fold' to 'those clients that can' fold it.

Again, I'm just throwing something out there. Not demanding. Just trying to provide some insight from the down-time my farm goes through that i'd rather have sending finished science every time.

Thanks for allowing me this opinion on a project that I am historically committed to.\

Sean

[MrBalll]

At the top of this discussion, you posted a FAHlog. toTOW responded that someone else folded it successfully. Since that interchange, you've done a lot of complaining but you have not presented enough information about any subsequent problems for anyone to help you. There are lots an lots of 375 point WUs. Please show us which ones have been assigned to you and how they failed so we can actually respond to the specifics of your case. So far, 100% of the ones you've posted about [i.e.- a single WU: Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21)] show that someone else was able to complete it, which makes it seem like it's some kind of problem OTHER THAN a problem with the WU.

The only 375 I have been assigned is Project: 5799 (Run 10, Clone 37, Gen 21). Also, what other information can I present that would allow you guys to help me?