Feature Request for All Clients [Auto Update Clients?] [No]

[hackman2007]

Hey everyone, I have a feature request for all versions of the Folding@Home client. I would LOVE to see an autoupdater included with the client that checks for updates every 2-3 weeks or so. This would be a very nice addition and would help with Folding greatly. Like for example, I can set my mom's computer on SMP, but when the beta expires I have to go re-configure the entire thing which is a major hassle.

So please, can we have an auto-updater?

[toTOW]

This has already been requested, and refused.

Pande Group policy has always been to let users control the client updates.

[bruce]

Also, beta clients should not be run unattended.

The Released clients don't expire so they should be good for a number of years from when they're released. (In fact, V4 still runs, though it doesn't have all the features of V5 or V6.) This should be solved when the V6 client goes gold, but I don't know when that will be. In the meantime, V5 is certainly a reasonable option.

[hackman2007]

Also, beta clients should not be run unattended.

The Released clients don't expire so they should be good for a number of years from when they're released. (In fact, V4 still runs, though it doesn't have all the features of V5 or V6.) This should be solved when the V6 client goes gold, but I don't know when that will be. In the meantime, V5 is certainly a reasonable option.

I'm not running them unattended, it is a pain to go reconfigure them is what I'm saying.

[bruce]

I'm not running them unattended, it is a pain to go reconfigure them is what I'm saying.

We all share that same pain. That's one of the joys of beta testing.

[7im]

Run the standard CPU client if the deadlines of the beta clients are not to your liking.

[VijayPande]

Hey everyone, I have a feature request for all versions of the Folding@Home client. I would LOVE to see an autoupdater included with the client that checks for updates every 2-3 weeks or so. This would be a very nice addition and would help with Folding greatly. Like for example, I can set my mom's computer on SMP, but when the beta expires I have to go re-configure the entire thing which is a major hassle.

So please, can we have an auto-updater?

This has been on our minds for years. We've from time to time tried out various commercial solutions for this (eg see http://www.fredshack.com/docs/auto_update.html for a nice list), but none were sufficiently reliable. The problem is that it's easy to write code to uninstall the previous install, download the latest .msi, install that, and then run it. However, making sure that all the configuration files work (especially if people have non-vanilla installs) has been tricky, especially when new clients have new or different features.

We've been doing a lot of client work recently (new GUI, merged clients, etc), so we don't have the resources to deal with this immediately, but it's been very much on my mind. If someone has updater code that they like, please let me know (feel free to PM me).

[Xilikon]

The other issue is that if the client try to self-update, it doesn't always work due to the fact that the exe is already running when it tries to replace it. I worked a lot on this aspect and it's not as easy as it seems.

[Beberg]

This is a lot harder to do smoothly then you would think. It works fine for apps with no configurations, and no other programs/cores running, etc.

However, this is something that will likely be in the new infrastructure (don't hold your breath), but you have to design it in from the very beginning, or it's just not possible.

[MtM]

The other issue is that if the client try to self-update, it doesn't always work due to the fact that the exe is already running when it tries to replace it. I worked a lot on this aspect and it's not as easy as it seems.

:S

You can have the functionality not in the main executable but external, problem solved. Executable checks for an update AFTER it finishes its current wu, update found executable exits after starting the seperate update process.

Only mpi on smp might be more involving as you need to change windows files not application files.

I think the main problem is like VJ pointed out ensuring compatibility along the whole range including settings. What if you're running certain flags the new client would not recognize? Or even wurse, what if the new client would need a diffrent configuration file format?

Instead of limiting yourself to an auto updater, I would go bigger. Create a fah managment gui like boincview and let that gui manage all other clients be it smp console or gpu, and include all these options through there. First off an auto updater on each version alone could maybe get into trouble not knowing you're running multiple instances of that one client on the same machine, while an overall gui which controlls all local clients is firstly aware of them and secondly it knows exactly everything it needs to know ( hw config and client config ) in order to determine what to update and when. It's allot more work but it will pay off I'm sure.

Another advantage is, I wrote .net based installers for fah in the past, that you can have that single gui as a download option, and have it check and list what clients you can run ( and recommend the most efficient combination of clients ) so you're essentially preventing allot off user requests for help on that issue as well. If you have a Pande Group backend which communicates with the gui, Pande has a much better way of monitoring for problems as well as their less reliant on user involvement, as I can for instance see a gui being configured to report certain problems without user interaction.

[Xilikon]

I never said impossible, I did manage like that (a EXE check itself if there is a updated version. If yes, call a updater exe, the updated close the caller exe then update before restarting the caller exe. It then terminate itself). However, to do this as cleanly as possible and to manage the possible config changes, it's much more harder (what if a new exe version change the way it use a config file ? What if the new exe need a new directory structure ?).

However, having a boinc-like client would be a great way to manage all this.

[MtM]

I never said impossible, I did manage like that (a EXE check itself if there is a updated version. If yes, call a updater exe, the updated close the caller exe then update before restarting the caller exe. It then terminate itself). However, to do this as cleanly as possible and to manage the possible config changes, it's much more harder (what if a new exe version change the way it use a config file ? What if the new exe need a new directory structure ?).

However, having a boinc-like client would be a great way to manage all this.

No I don't mean a boinc like client, but a boinc like interface. Big diffrence, as fah clients are more advanced afaik certainly the ggpu clients are the first of their kind and by definition that means you won't find beter one's lol

What I mean is, thought it was pretty clear, not a change to the clients but an added interface which makes it easier for people to get started and monitor and manage everything. It should offer a one click install and forget option ( since in my last post I try to explain how by knowing the exact client configs and hardware configs from the whole system you can auto update ) or options to install the advanced clients and offer a more hands on gui. There are lots of bonusses I can think off, and not really any drawbacks other then the added development costs which I think is better aimed at the clients. I'm not realistic here but I wouldn't mind if a third party would think it's good pr if they work together with the Pande Group in creating such a solution, so that they can keep concentrating on updating their core clients ( something I think they are excelling in, otherwise this project would be on the foreground of developments in distributed computing ).

[bruce]

The notfred 3rd party tool does almost what you're asking. Put the CD in the computer and let it boot. . . . or perhaps it should come in a VM wrapper so the computer can be used for something else, but it's not the best choice for everyone. As soon as somebody asks "I had an error, how do I fix it" the options are severely limited. (And, in case you hadn't noticed, FAH attracts a lot of people who want to overclock their hardware and tweak their client.

[MtM]

The notfred 3rd party tool does almost what you're asking. Put the CD in the computer and let it boot. . . . or perhaps it should come in a VM wrapper so the computer can be used for something else, but it's not the best choice for everyone. As soon as somebody asks "I had an error, how do I fix it" the options are severely limited. (And, in case you hadn't noticed, FAH attracts a lot of people who want to overclock their hardware and tweak their client.

True but notfred is linux right? Linux is bad ass, but realistly in the future how much revenue will there come from linux boxes compared to windows boxes? I'm sadly very much reliant on MS products. I wouldn't mind the option to download one package which then checks my system and downloads the clients it or I choose depending on just how involved I want to be, and for instance easier options to setup and monitor fah from a central server for internet cafe's or office system admins as a next needed update.

[bruce]

True but notfred is linux right? Linux is bad ass, but realistly in the future how much revenue will there come from linux boxes compared to windows boxes?...

You missed my point entirely. Whether notfred's client is running linux or not isn't important because you don't have to DO ANYTHING to it. It just boots and runs. That means there are two circumstances where it meets your exact criteria when you're talking about "windows box".

1) WIndows is being shut down and you want to fold until you start Windows again.
2) You have installed Virtual Appliance software which allows you to run something other than Windows inside of WIndows. The virtual machine can be booted without shutting down Windows -- it's just something else that's running. Again, you don't see any Linux. It's sort of like your cell-phone or your ipod or your GPS. They just run. You can't tell whether they're running Windows or LInux or something else because you just turn it on and it does its thing.

There's no reason why notfred and Virtual Appliance couldn't be be packaged together to run as a batch Windows job.